CMR 15: Small Changes Cause Massive Increases in Conversion Rates

“The dead-simple strategy that took my conversion rates to new heights…”



**Transcription from Podcast Recording**


Ben Willson: Now, I’m curious… How many people have started a business over and over? You just keep starting businesses, or maybe you’ve got different ideas, or just in general. Do you keep feeling like you’re starting over and over and nothing ever works? I feel I’ve had the exact same experience, and I want to share that with you guys, but also how this applies to your marketing. Let’s get into this.

[Intro Music]

Announcer: Welcome to Conversion Marketing Radio, uncovering the secrets of how to convert your dream clients into paying customers. If you’re here to learn about maximizing conversions for your business without wasting money on vanity results, consider subscribing to this podcast. Now here’s your host, Ben Willson.

Ben Willson: Welcome back, guys. Hey, I’m Ben Willson, I’m super excited to have you here on Conversion Marketing Radio. One of the things that I’ve really been thinking about is, I had a coaching caller recently with actually a good friend who is working with different sales funnels and trying to figure out what’s best to do with their business. He took me up on my free coaching offer that I put out a couple of weeks ago. We had a great time talking about his business and the different strategies and whatnot.

It also brought about some different thoughts that I’ve had just in general about my own life, in my own businesses, and as well the type of marketing that needs to be run. When I was younger, I started a clothing company. If you’ve listened to this podcast, I started the clothing company when I was 16. I would try different designs. Most of the time, it was little doodles that happened in church where I’d try to be paying attention as best as I could, but the only way I could really pay attention was actually to just have my hands start working.

As I started drawing these little doodles, I’d draw all these different doodles. This is where it all started. I started making big implementations and big changes to the type of designs. There wasn’t anything similar between any of the designs, they were very much all unique, which at the time seemed like a great idea. The same concept kept transferring later on into my life. What ended up happening was I’d get an idea for either a business or maybe a new product design or something.

What would happen is I would go and I’d make a design. Specifically, I’m remembering a situation when I was working with the event company. We were launching a new product line, like a clothing line inside of the company so that we could upsell t-shirts and things to enhance the experience of the event attendees. Nice white shirts that they could get paint all over to remember the experience, wristbands, bandanas, sweatshirts, all these different things that we can add into it.

I’m trying to think of all the cool designs that could go into making these products. One of the things — I’ve got to get him on the show. His name is Dan Swiss. He has been such a mentor to me and such a great influence in my life especially in business. One of the things that happened is I kept sending him all these different designs that are all unique. I was just trying to show all the capacities. I think it was at the time I was trying to impress him to basically create a job for me.

I’d send him all these different designs and what would happen is he’d be like, “Yes, I think that design could work.” He’s like, “It’s not quite there.” Instead of going and trying to tweak it, I would come back with a whole new design which would take a couple of extra days. Instead of making a couple of tweaks to the design and try to make it work with what I had, I would just go start all over again. I’d be, “Okay, he didn’t like that, so maybe he’ll like this other design.”

I went and made a completely different graphic for a t-shirt or a hoodie, or what not. He’d give me the same response. He’d be like, ” Well, it’s pretty cool. I can see where you’re going.” Instead of yet again going back and making these tiny little tweaks, I’d go and keep coming out with these completely brand new ideas. One time, he told me this. He was like, “You know, you just make these little changes and I think it would actually work.” I was like, “Wait, really? Just the little changes?” I think I might have been just feeling defeated at the time.

I was like, “Well, I don’t even know you want anymore. I’ve tried to send you all these different designs.” This is where that life lesson came in. I didn’t realize it was going to be a life lesson and be applicable in so many different areas. What he said was, “Just make the tiny little changes. What you already have, it’s a great concept, it’s a great idea. Let’s just make a couple of tweaks and see if we can really harness the concept. Let’s see if the little tweak makes it worse or makes it better.”

From there, suddenly all the graphics started really changing. We started selling more t-shirts. We started really making a lot more money with our products. It was crazy to see the difference of what was happening because we didn’t have to make drastic changes. We just made these small tweaks. From there, that same principle went into the marketing. We would release a video, and inside of the video would be all the different things that happened at the events to pump up people, to get them excited that we’re going to be launching.

I remember applying the same principle. Instead of going through and trying to redo the video because it wasn’t doing well, I tried to either add maybe a new title, maybe a different headline to it, maybe make the video shorter or longer but not necessarily go make a whole new video, and then try recreate the will every single time. This is where the whole concepts of learning the tiny tweaks. Thankfully at that time, this is right when Facebook was really releasing Facebook Ads.

I was training with one of the specialists actually from Facebook how to best utilize their platform. They were offering this fantastic service that really walked you through the specifics of how to best utilize their platform before they’ve released any knowledge-based articles or anything. People weren’t necessarily putting this ad on the internet then. They had no idea. They’re trying to test it themselves. The same concept was so crazy. The AB split testing came around that time and we started testing.

You could test six different images at the same time. Instead of going through and making six completely different images, what would happen is I make a template and look for some similarities in the type of pictures that I was going after, or I would try go and just see what’s stuck. I put a picture of like a girl at the events and then target that specifically towards guys, but then just to see if that’s going to work, is that happening?

I might put like six different images of different girls that have attended the prior events to see if any of those were going to work. What was so crazy is I wouldn’t know which one was going to be the best. How Facebook works, specifically in this example, is that it throws out to similar audiences and then sees what’s the reaction. Are people stopping on the ad? Are people clicking on it? What’s happening here? I was always surprised. I will tell you, I could never guarantee which ad was going to do the best.

To this day, that’s the exact same mentality. I don’t know which ad is going to do the best. I’m going to have some ideas, I’m going to have some thoughts, but at the end of the day, I really just have to test how the market takes this. Instead of trying to recreate all-new ad concepts, it was important to go through and try to make more of like something that was standard that I could test side by side. As I introduce at the beginning of this podcast, I had done a coaching course recently. I actually want to segment to that.

I got a clip of the call and working with a fantastic guy. His name’s Tristan. He’s been trying to work in multiple different businesses and just seeing what’s going to work. This is s specific business that we’re talking about. It got some product lines that’s coming out that could be utilized for either Fall or Christmas. It also has a very specific target base, but we were trying to see what’s the best approach to figuring out these ads?

With his permission, I’m excited to play this clip for you, guys, of this coaching call.



Tristin: One of the issues I’ve had is, I really am struggling to convince myself to put money into the advertising. It’s sort of a chicken and the egg situation, where I’m not getting any better at it because I’m not really taking any chances with it and I’m not getting results, so that’s how I justify not taking more chances.

Ben Willson: No, it’s actually good. I would always put about $5 a day into ads because you don’t want to have it wasted, $10 at the most while you’re testing it, because what you want to do is you want to do a lot of split tests and very minor changes. One of the things I’ve really learned — and it was this big aha moment, and it’s going to sound so silly. I realized to not make major changes. If I came up with an idea, I would just try execute on that idea and optimize it a few times.

I would let $5 or $10 a day run on something, and I would just see how it’s performing. Then the very next week, I would just keep it right at the same $5 or $10 a day, but I would either maybe change the audience just slightly and leave the ad, or I would change something in the title, something like a word, or maybe the picture, but very, very small changes, not anything drastic or big because now you’re doing a whole lot of extra work. You’re trying to figure out okay, “What’s this like, the one big thing?”

I don’t know if it’s just me, but I know that I’ve heard of a lot of other marketers out there who have definitely come to the same realization, like it just takes daily trial and error because you’re never going to get it right on the first try. If you do, it’s literally luck because you might think you know what you’re doing, you might put up the exact same ad that someone else has, you might even try to do some same targeting, and you might have some luck except for — I’ve also then completely tried to copy other people’s ads.

They just failed, exact same audience, exact same ad, everything. Then what I started doing was I would change the picture. It might be like a picture of a woman who, let’s say in your situation, between the ages of 25 to 45. I might literally just change the picture to maybe something that’s got more light, or maybe I might change a single word, or I might put in something appealing, or I might actually take out some words and just put in an ellipsis, a dot dot dot so it’s more of a hook. These are the little things that I would change along the way and start like just saying, “One change at a time,” because if you start making lots of changes, you don’t realize what made the difference, right?

Tristin: Right.

Ben Willson: That’s what you want to do, is you want to start honing in because as soon as you make a change and you see a difference, you’re like, “Awesome.” Now I can replicate that to this audience. Obviously, they like this kind of picture or they are attracted to these words. Some words work really, really well in certain industries, and some don’t. It really just comes down to your target audience. It could even be the time of year, how people are feeling. You’re a psychologist, right? People are so weird, right?

Tristin: Yes, for sure.

Ben Willson: Like everyone has got so many different appearances. An ad might have worked six months ago for someone else, and they might say, “Hey, look at this ad. It’s amazing, it’s perfect.” I know you’re part of the click funnels group, you’ve seen these people talk about some of that stuff. If you literally try go replicate it, it doesn’t work. You’re like, “That’s so crazy.Why?” Because it might have worked a month ago even due to the season.

It could have been anything causing these types of changes, but what you can do though is you can at least start out on that level. If you’re not seeing the same results, start making minor tweaks. That way, you’ll start to learn more about Facebook ads. You’ll also start to maybe make one change, and if it works, then put that in your little knowledge bank like “Awesome.” I can use that word and it attracts these kinds of people.

Tristin: We have a lot of different products. Would you recommend running multiple ads at the same time?

Ben Willson: Yes, I would. I definitely would. Especially if you’re just trying to get a feel for how the market is, I would do one product at a time on each ad but I would do multiple ads. I wouldn’t go too crazy unnecessarily, like changing each style of the ad. I would make almost like a template, and then change the product for that template, and see if the template works. If all the ads fail, you know the template needs to change.

If all the ads start doing kind of good but one product is selling better than the others, then you at least know what products you can put in front of those people, and you know your template works, at least specifically for that product. Then what you could do is either change the style of the ad and still put it in front of the people of a different product, the one that might not be selling. Change up how it’s presented, and then put it in front of the exact same audience that is buying the other product.

That way, you can just say, “Well, was it the ad style or is it literally the product?” That’s what you want to start figuring out as you’re running ads. Is it my product? Is it the offer? Is it my audience? There’s so many variables, but if you just test one at a time and then change one thing at a time, you can at least start eliminating variables.



So guys, when it comes to ads and landing pages, you really just want to make these tiny little tweaks because you’re not very far off unless you legitimately feel that what you’re doing is completely wrong.

Then what you need to start doing is at least trying to optimize what you currently have. Try change a word. Try change a phrase. Maybe the picture is different. Maybe add a different lighting. Maybe don’t release your ads on a Friday. Actually, that’s like the craziest thing. I’ve learned that it’s a terrible time for Facebook to run their algorithms and face –just don’t launch your ads on a Friday.

That took a long time to actually try and figure out only because I had to learn about how the whole system works to go, “Wait a second, I really should. I should really launch this on more like a Monday.” That way, my data is more consistent and I’m not thinking, “Crap, I launched it on a Friday,” not thinking anything about launching this ad, only to come to find out that my data looks so skewed when I showed back up on Monday and just thought, “Oh my gosh, my ads did so poorly,” so then on Monday, I had completely changed my add because it didn’t look very good.

Maybe just try launching your ads on a different day. That could also be an either like tiny tweak to try out. My call to action for you guys today is start AB split testing your stuff. If you’re running Facebook Ads, if you’re doing Google Ads or just landing pages, whatever is happening, the best way to optimize it is make like a duplicate copy, start sending traffic to both places, and then make tiny little tweaks so you can recognize what’s working and what’s not working.

If you can hone in on what words, maybe your cut like your target audience is attracted to, then that’s the best way to re-utilize that in other ways. There’s so much data that you can really gather and really try to hone in on your specific target market for your business.


If you guys enjoy today’s podcast or if this is your first time here, go ahead and hit that subscribe button if you already haven’t.


Also, I’m still offering free 60-minute coaching calls. If you or someone you know would like to take me up on that offer, go ahead over to You’ll see the sign up button right there. Seriously, there’s no catch, there’s nothing there. Just go ahead take me up on this offer, because I am trying to best fit the type of message that I can share with you guys. The whole purpose of it is to really just get to meet you guys, and also to learn more about your business and as well as what are some of the challenges that we can talk about here on this podcast.

Again, thanks for listening in. Also, if you’ve got a question that you want answered on the show, do head over to Conversion Marketing Radio and you’ll see a button there where you can send me a voicemail if you don’t want to necessarily take me up on that 60-minute coaching call. Thanks again, guys, have a great night.

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